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19 Mar 09 Italian Citizenship for Italians born Abroad, Find out how here! Repost

 

The below was a conversation that took place on the Italians in the World Group on couchsurfing.com, the original is available here. I spent a long time putting together these posts, and I feel like it answers a lot of questions that a lot of people have. Hopefully google will bring some of those people here. Best of luck on your Citizenship requests!
Italian Citizenship for Italians born Abroad, Find out how here!
Posted May 6th, 2008 – 5:02 am by Paul Rausch from Fort Myers, United States (Permalink)
Someone read in one of my other posts about acquiring Dual-Nationality with Italy. She messaged me for more information. I figure this might be a good opportunity to inform some of you of the benefits of Dual-Citizenship and the process!

Dual-Citizenship offers a number of benefits. As an Italian citizen you have free access to the entire European Union. Which means right to work/abode in any member state. Furthermore it entitles you to Universal Healthcare and puts you in a position for better access to the European University systems.

Italy now has an all voluntary military force, meaning that you will not have to serve in the Italian army.

My passports:

Italian-American.

Italian-American.

Both of them very dear to me.

This wikipedia article has a very good definition and explanation of the process: Check here to see if you qualify.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Citizenship

But I can throw in some personal experience.
This is written from my American perspective but the process is similar everywhere, look into your area for more information on the specifics there.

I went through the whole process a couple years ago. I
am in the process of getting my dad his citizenship
with Ireland, so I’m going through this all over again now. Technically according to Italian law if you qualify, you were born an Italian citizen. What you are essentially
doing is “registering” your birth. Once you finish supplying your documents and having your citizenship certified you can apply for an Italian passport and have all the same rights, responsibilities and privileges of an Italian citizen anywhere else in the world.

The most troublesome part of the process is getting your documents in order. You will have to acquire your ancestors documents, and all of the documents of the people that connect you to them. If the documents are Italian they will make photo copies and return them. If they are American they must be in Long Form (meaning they are complete) and must bear an “Apostille”. An apostille is a little stamp and paper that certifies the document for use abroad. It is regulated by international treaty. They usually cost around 5-15$ depending on the state, and its best to request to have your new documents apostilled rather than sending them back. 

The biggest potential snag for US citizens is that if your parent was born after your grandparent was naturalised. The naturalisation process of the time required people to rescind their previous citizenships. This means that you will be ineligible unless you ancestor first reconfirms their citizenship. 

For example: If your paternal grandfather was born in Italy here are the documents you would have to acquire.

Paternal Grandfather
Birth Certificate (Italian)
Proof of Citizenship (Italian, usually a Passport)
Naturalisation Certificate (USA)
Marriage Certificate (US Apostilled)
Death Certificate (US Apostilled)

You/your siblings/your Father:
Birth Certificate (US Apostilled)
Marriage Certificate (US Apostilled)
Death Certificate (US Apostilled)

I managed to get all of my documents together for around 100$. You then need to have them translated, this will probably run you between 100-200$, depending on how many documents need to be translated. Finally there are a few fees from the consulate but they don’t add up to more than 100$.

So for me it cost a total of 500$ with a passport and one year passport tax paid. If you pool your resources though that number can get as low a 250$ per person. Best of all, once you do the documents, there are no additional fees for the rest of your life.

The best way to handle everything is to apply for the entire family at once. You only need one set of the communal documents and if you pool translation and document costs the labour and money becomes a lot more manageable. The documents will be sent to be stored in your family’s Comune so you will not get the American documents back.

At the end of the process you get a short piece of paper with the simple phrase.

YOURNAME E’ UN CITTADINO ITALIANO.

Mine’s framed ;) .

Each region of the US has its own consulate, check the list here to find out the one that handles you:
www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/Ambasciata_Washington/Menu/Amb…

Typically you will have to go there to turn in all the
documents, but you only have to go in once. Usually
you have to make an appointment once you get
everything together.

The consulates work Italian consular hours, which means they barely work at all. They can be difficult to get information from via email, so be insistent. The citizenship departments get backed up.

Good luck! You will probably have loads of questions. Feel free to ask, I just wish there was someone around to help me when I did it!

 

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Posted May 6th, 2008 – 9:43 pm by Angie DQ from Montreal, Canada (Permalink)
Hi Paul,

You did a great job at explaining!!! I, too, received my Italian Citizenship, and the day I got my Italian passport, I felt amazing! It was something I wanted to do for awhile but kept putting it off because of all the paper work. It didn’t cost me nearly as much as it costed you. I had paid $70 for a document from the Canadian Government and $65 for my passport.

So, all this said and done, when are we moving there?
;)
Angie

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Posted May 6th, 2008 – 10:54 pm by Paul Rausch from Fort Myers, United States (Permalink)
The answer to your question is..: The moment I can find a job in the South…so I don’t think anytime soon ;)

In regards to fees: I have heard people in some areas getting away that cheaply. Some consulates will even translate documents for free. I had a particularly large number of documents to file, so it got messy for me.

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Posted May 22nd, 2008 – 4:27 pm by Laura Tarquinio from Stuart, United States (Permalink)
I am so glad you started this thread.
I have been interested in getting my Italian Citizenship for quite some time. My father was from Italy, he passed away in ’01. He never gave up his citizenship. 
I understand that I am eligible to become a citizen but the paperwork says I need my mothers information which is a problem. She is not Italian and for some reason she is uncooperative and won’t give me her information. And to make matters worse, she is from NY and the state of NY won’t release information to anyone except that person. 
I don’t know if I really have a question so much as need advice. I thought I would try to put the paperwork through anyway and see what happens. Does anyone have any suggestions? Did you need the information from your non-Italian parent when you applied?
I have all my information and my father’s information. (birth certificates, etc)
Any help or advice anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated.
Laura
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Posted May 22nd, 2008 – 5:13 pm by Paul Rausch from Fort Myers, United States (Permalink)
You do not require your non-Italian parent’s documents. All you require is your parent’s Marriage Record. Even then you can probably get away without it because your acquiring citizenship through your father not your mother. They usually want it for name change purposes.

I actually got my non-Italian father’s documents in order as well but ended up not needing them. Fortunately though, I need them now for his Irish passport!

I think in the worse case, and you do need her documents you can get a court order. Although they are not public documents they are available to anyone who has a legitimate use for them.

Good luck, and please let me know if you have other questions.

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Posted May 26th, 2008 – 1:51 am by Laura Tarquinio from Stuart, United States (Permalink)
Thanks for your help. I have been very discouraged lately. This is giving me incentive to move ahead.
Thanks again.
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Posted June 3rd, 2008 – 11:02 am by Sanna723 from Milano, Italy (Permalink)
Not to be a kill joy, but dual citizenship isn’t all you guys make it out to be, there are negatives to it, and there are some innacuracies with what you posted. 

You are NOT entitled to Universal healthcare in Italy just by having an italian passport; you also must reside in Italy to have it. If you live in another country you are subject to their healthcare system (eg, if you reside in the UK, you will probably have NHS; in the US, you are free to choose your own private insurance or even none at all), and you are only entitled to 90 days per year of coverage.

ALSO, you can lose your italian or other citizenship by getting another passport, depending on the laws of the other country.

You MAY have to pay taxes in both states depending on your economic situation and local laws.

You also can lose protection when abroad; for example if you get into trouble or an accident, or ill while travelling or working abroad, both countries can take the position “its not my responsibility” AND if you get into trouble in one of the countries of where you hold citenship (all of the EU), the other country has its hands tied.

So, before you apply, be aware of those drawbacks as well. 

Finally on a personal level, i find it kind of sad and insulting that people will be applying (and have already applied) for citizenship just in order to get work permits or to be “cool”; i think if you want to become a citizen of the republic, you hold a responsibilty, and you should be aware of history, language, and culture, as well as integrate, but i guess each person has their own thoughts on that…

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Posted June 4th, 2008 – 3:15 am by Paul Rausch from Fort Myers, United States (Permalink)
You make valid point which should be addressed. I’m glad you made this post because as you said there are some points to Dual-Citizenship that do need to be addressed. As with anything there are advantages and disadvantages to acquiring Italian nationality. Being someone who already has, I can say that the very small disadvantages far outweigh the positive.However at the same time I’d like to make some counterpoints. Being a dual-citizen I’ve encountered most of these issues and had to deal with them. For the most part I have found them to be a null-issue with Italy. 

SSN: You are correct that you indeed do not have access to the Italian Healthcare system while living in the US, UK et cetera. But this is completely normal and expected. However on the positive end being a Citizen of the republic means that you are entitled to healthcare in Italy if you wish to take advantage of it. This means that it is a safety net. I am extremely familiar with this because both of my parents have being declared preexisting for forms of cancer. In the event they develop terminal cancer they will NOT be covered by our private insurance and can expect to pay out of pocket 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars. My father is an Irish citizen and my mother is Italian, we rely on our European passports to protect us in the event of terminal illness if we decide to seek treatment in the EU. The Italian Healthcare system (Servizio Sanitario Nazionale) will never deny you treatment, and you will not be expected to pay an unreasonable fee. We had a family member who decided to undergo an expensive operation in Italy because the cost of her treatment would have eaten up any inheritance her family would have received. 

Loss of Citizenship: Yes, you can lose your Italian citizenship under certain circumstances. However naturalisation in most countries is no longer a condition for loss of citizenship as it once was. Italy has a very favourable citizenship law which is designed in favour the nearly 1.5 million Italian citizens living abroad…like me. Furthermore most people will not be naturalising a second citizenship, they will be “recognising”. For example if you are following the process I set out, you are not naturalising. You have in fact ALWAYS been an Italian citizen. Which is NOT a condition for loss of citizenship.

Taxes: There are very few countries which require citizens to even file for taxes in countries they do not reside in. The US is one of the very few. In the US you are required to file an income tax statement even if you do not live there, however you are not required to pay additional tax over what you pay to the country you live in. This is designed to prevent rich Americans from moving their income to tax-havens and avoid taxation. Italy on the other hand does not require you to file income tax statements while living abroad. This means if you decide to live in Europe, you will still be required to file an income tax statement, but because of higher European tax rates you will not be expected to pay twice.

Conflict of Representation: This issue is actually discussed in all US passports. The current ruling is that the US or your first nationality has no jurisdiction over you while you are in a nation where you hold citizenship. For example, if you get into trouble in Italy. You are entirely an Italian citizen and the US has no recourse. If you get in trouble in Russia, you remain a citizen of both countries. You will have access to consular services from both countries, and have the right to ask either or both for consular assistance. This is commonly listed as a benefit of multiple citizenships and is the primary reason why I always keep both passports on me while travelling. Especially in places which have unfavourable relationships with the US (I.e. Cuba).

I understand your feelings. Many people especially Argentines and Brazilians acquire Italian citizenship purely for employment reasons. Which although is a valuable asset to them I can see can be frustrating for you as a born and raised Italian. On the other hand being someone who was raised on the Italian-American hyphen, I understand the real reasons why people apply for Dual Nationality. It is not for employment but rather to embrace where they come from or for many people, to go to school or buy a second home in Italy without legal complication. You said the term “because they think it is cool”. I was a bit hurt by this because, yes, I think my Italian passport is very “cool” I also think it represents everything my family has gone through in their journey from Italy here.

But I agree with you, no one should acquire nationality without having some Italian identity. But I think anyone willing to go through the hassle of getting their documents in order and acquiring a second nationality has more in mind than just “being cool”. In fact I hear all of these reasons against getting dual nationality in the states from people who have the same feelings about citizenship. However I have never heard a single person with dual Nationality complain about any of the things you have mentioned. As a matter of fact I only hear people asking me “do you think you can help me apply for mine?” and “my grandfather will be so proud that I’m an Italian citizen too”.

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Posted August 31st, 2008 – 9:04 pm by Laura V from Buenos Aires, Argentina (Permalink)
I understand your feelings towards dual citizenship, but I don’t share them. There are some misconceptions…

It is estimated between 20 to 25 million Argentines have some degree of Italian descent. That’s a lot considering that we are just 37 million people here…
And people don’t apply for it because it’s “cool”. There are better ways to be cool! lol
I think I know what you are talking about… The argies invasion you had seven years ago. Well, it wasn’t cool, at all. Young people emigrated to Europe (mainly to Spain, of course) after the 2001 economic crash looking for better chances. Most of them left without any papers. It’s hard to get an Italian citizenship. It takes more than 4 years now. So don’t panic. :)
It seems easy to get it, as you just have to prove you have Italian blood. But the Italian Consulate works really slow, and to top it all, now it’s suspected from corruption!

And somehow the history was repeating. Italians came here looking for a better future. In 2001 their grandchildren were doing exactly the same. Crazy, isn’t it?
At that time, I preferred to stay here as I still had a good job. I was overwhelmed by the situation, but not desperate. And because I prefer to leave with a plan… But that’s me. I am not judging anyone here.

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